|
Follow Up on the
News
|
City’s
Rec Rules Tossed
Hunter also argued that the new rules were illegal because
state law required state Health Department approval before
the city agency could enact them. The Department of Environmental
Protection did not seek such approval.
Last year, Hunter Supervisor Dennis Lucas complained that
the rules were thrust upon the community, which he said was
not asked to participate in their development. Lucas viewed
that as a violation of the “partnership” between
the city agency and the watershed communities.
“The petitioner alleges it is entitled to a declaratory
judgment finding the Recreational Use Rules are illegal, null,
void and of no legal effect as the DEP failed to comply with
public health law,” wrote state Supreme Court Justice
Joseph C. Teresi in his June 19 decision.
“(The ruling) means that all of the city’s recreational
use regs have been annulled and the city has to submit them
to the state Department of Health for approval - which will
entail its own procedures,” said Jeff Baker, the attorney
who, represented Hunter in the case.
“Consistent with state Department of Environmental Conservation
Commissioner (Alexander “Pete”) Grannis’
statements at his confirmation, the state does not believe
that the city regulations properly allow access for hikers,
hunters and fishermen,” Baker added. “Therefore,
we do not expect that the state will approve them as written.”
The rules were formally announced last summer at the Delaware
County Fair in Walton.
“Preserving New York City’s watershed land is
a crucial aspect for maintaining a clean, healthy water supply
for more than nine million residents of New York state, but
these lands are also beautiful, inviting natural spaces,”
Department of Environmental Protection Commissioner Emily
Lloyd said at the time. “For the past several years,
the department has been working with local and county governments
and sporting groups to expand recreational activities and
access to DEP land.”
One
Last Time To Run
Sporting a hound dog gaze and a disarmingly direct manner
of approach to knotty questions, Leifeld has captained the
township through two stormy decades and voters have repeatedly
tended their support in the form of ballots cast.
"I wasn’t going to run," reveals Leifeld,
who’ll be 70 in November and has been thinking about
traveling after retirement. "But there isn’t anyone,
right now, from the Democratic side that’s ready to
do it. They’re saying ‘one more time, one more
time- we’re not ready.’ So, that’s one factor
in the decision. Another thing is that there’s a few
things going that I just think need my guidance at this time.
Not that I can’t be replaced. That’s not what
I’m saying. But the sewer project has its pros and cons
and I would like to see that be at least three-quarters down
the road because I think there’s some people, as we
go through this thing, that are going to have an awful lot
of questions as to why they’re doing this and why they’re
doing that. I just feel I’m more qualified to answer
them than anyone else right now."
Leifeld appended that he wasn’t implying that the rest
of the Olive town board wasn’t capable of navigating
through the project but that no one at this point was clamoring
to take the reins and that his position with the Catskill
Watershed Corporation was a strong compliment to his Olive
post in negotiations with New York City’s Department
of Environmental Protection concerning the waste water facility
scheduled to be constructed in Boiceville.
"I’m on the board up there at CWC and they just
made me second vice president, for whatever that means, but
it is beneficial when you sit down (to talk) with the City,"
Leifeld points out. "I really think there’s got
to be some talk, if not an agreement right away, on some sort
of a universal agreement, idea, formula. What we’re
doing now certainly doesn’t work. I think it’s
an important thing for Olive to have someone who’s been
through these lawsuits to be sitting there talking about it."
The incumbent supervisor is referring to New York City’s
repeated court challenges to local assessments on their properties
in Olive, a point of contention ever since their decision
to build a reservoir system here forever changed the environment
and the future of the town. Now, since the funds afforded
Olive (and other watershed towns) by a "Memorandum of
Agreement" signed in 1997 to defend against the lawsuits
has run out, the problem is exacerbated by a new court date
looming in September. The case, originally slated for the
Spring before State Supreme Court Justice Vincent Bradley,
had been postponed by his death last November.
"With the CWC defense money gone, we’ve got to
get an intermunicipal agreement with the (Onteora) school
and the county," Leifeld nods. "We’ve had
one with the county so we could run up to CWC and say ‘Look,
we’ve got all these towns here and you’ve got
to help us out.’ It worked but now that the money is
gone, why should the Town of Olive, alone, spend $500,000
it doesn’t have in a defense against the City when the
school stands to lose more money than we do? And they don’t
even seem to be interested in talking about it. I realize
schools are in a different position in that if they don’t
get it one way, they’ll get it another but they should
be interested enough so they don’t have to go to their
taxpayers say ‘Now, we’re going to have an increase
and it’s all going to New York City.’ They don’t
seem to want to join the boat other than sit on the side and
have some lawyer write us a letter to tell us how they’re
making out. They’ve got to be a player here."
Complaining that Onteora’s business management, which
doesn’t directly tend tax assessments, has too slight
a grasp on the overall situation, Leifeld expressed some hope
that the school’s new superintendent, Leslie Ford, will
understand the gravity of the situation for the institution
when he explains it directly.
"Look at it this way," Leifeld proposes. "Suppose
Hurley and Olive - and this isn’t a far-fetched idea,
we’ve actually talked about this - say, the next time
a lawsuit comes down that the CWC doesn’t pay for, that
we’ll sit down and cut a deal with the City. Now, is
this deal going to be beneficial to Onteora? Don’t you
think they’d want to sit in and say ‘Hey, wait
a minute! You can’t do that!’? Well, come up with
some defense money then - especially with this ‘Large
Parcel’ nonsense! Why should the town pay $500,000 and
then get beat over the head with Large Parcel every year on
the tax bill? So Woodstock can pay less? It just doesn’t
work that way."
Leifeld refers to a recently enacted law which gives the school
board the option of using the proceeds of the taxes on New
York City’s land in Olive and Hurley to pay the school
tax of other towns in the district.
"Okay, so they don’t do the assessment work at
the school but in this case, with the City, you’ve got
to pay a little attention if you’re in school management,"
Leifeld insists. "Do they realize, if we lose this case,
how many millions they’re going to have to pay back
to the City? The judge can say ‘Okay, New York, you’ve
been suing for six years. You’ve been over assessed
for six years. You paid the school so much more than you should
have, so the school has to pay it back; the town has to pay
it back; the county has to pay it back.’ This has happened
before, you know, in the 1990s and the only thing that helped
us was (Judge) Bradley’s ruling that let us put it in
the General Fund, so the City ended up paying part of it anyway.
But that can happen. Who knows what this new judge will be
thinking?"
The paperwork documentation was exchanged last week, Leifeld
notes, for a hearing in September from which a trial date
is expected to be set. Brendt is hoping that the groundwork
he’s laid through the CWC and his contacts with other
watershed supervisors will lead to a resolution of the larger
conflicts with New York.
"If some of the towns got together and said ‘Hey,
we want to meet with the Mayor and the (DEP) Commissioner.
Just sit down and talk instead of flinging lawyers back at
forth at each other. There’s got to be something we
can do. This is stupid. It’s stupid for them, for us,
for anybody involved that wants to take five minutes to think
about it. Where’s the common sense in all this? They’re
sitting down there (throwing) away money like crazy. They’ve
got these stupid security gates that come out of the ground.
I don’t have a clue of what they cost but, knowing the
way the City does something and the way this outside outfit’s
been digging up the ground for, what? Over a month?, you know
it’s got to be over a million dollars. And that’s
just one thing as they keep going on and on. Yet they’ll
(object to) our assessment. It makes no sense anymore. I believe
if somebody sat down and thought about it, they’d say
‘What the hell ARE we doing?’"
Leifeld feels that there has to be some deep uneasiness in
the DEP hierarchy; "If you talk to management, yes. If
you talk to the attorneys, well, they want to keep things
going. They’ll sit there with a straight face and tell
you the whole thing (Ashokan Reservoir) is worth $150 million.
Give me a break. They just bought two acres of swamp over
there in Shokan for $50,000 and it’s water. Nobody would
build on it anyway. And then they’re going to turn around
and tell us that the land over here where you overlook the
mountains and the water is worth $1,500? ...The lawyers that
have been fighting (the City’s lawsuits) all these years
will tell you the same thing- they’ve got to come up
with something other than the equalization rate. It doesn’t
work. There’s no way you can justify the value for us
on the equalization rate. That’s where the argument
is- it shouldn’t be brought into the equation when you’re
talking about New York City property."
Bringing up Congressman Maurice Hinchey’s June 13th
endorsement of the federal Environmental Protection Agency’s
proposed extended 10-year waiver of regulations which would
require New York City to build a multi-billion dollar water
filtration plant, Leifeld said he agreed with half of Hinchey’s
argument. Hinchey’s statement spoke of "continued
weakening of partnerships" in the watershed arrangement
which threatens the City’s ability to comply with the
FAD (Filtration Avoidance Determination- an agreement to guarantee
water quality through means other than a huge filtration plant,
renewable after a 5 year period).
"(P)ursuing a more aggressive and ambitious acquisition
program is critically important to the overall health of the
watershed but doing so, in the context of universally challenged
property tax assessments hurts local municipalities and contributes
to the erosion of these important strategic partnerships,"
Hinchey declared. "New York City owns no property of
greater value to its residents than the property within the
watershed and they should therefore pay an amount in property
taxes that is commensurate with the value of the land... Adding
to the frustration over the constant legal challenges to local
property assessments is the cessation of contributions made
by New York City to the legal defense fund of the Catskill
Watershed Corporation for the purpose of defending against
lawsuits generated by New York City challenging local property
assessments. The depleted legal defense fund requires individual
towns and their taxpayers to bear the financial burden of
defending against constant lawsuits. Recognizing the importance
of maintaining these critical partnerships, New York City
should continue to make contributions to the legal defense
fund. Furthermore, the City should seek out appropriate settlements
to these assessment issues in order to put aside one of the
most damaging issues affecting the strategic relationship
between the City and its watershed partners."
Obviously Leifeld could have little to criticize in Hinchey’s
statement. Where their views diverge is in Hinchey’s
enthusiasm for a ten year, rather than a five year, extension.
Although there are some locally who may object to the City’s
ambitious program of acquiring more watershed land and feel
not enough is being done to improve a hamstrung local economy,
the consensus would appear to support protection of the watershed
through suppression of development. Many current residents
have gravitated to the area to escape overly developed landscapes.
"What growth situation?" Leifeld asks. "We
certainly don’t want abundant commercial growth here.
Who’s going to come in? They’re not going to build
factories or anything like that. Concentrated housing wouldn’t
work here. First of all, I don’t think the people want
it and secondly, by the time they got done meeting all the
DEP requirements, it wouldn’t be worth it. As far as
growth in Olive, it’s going to be residential, if anything.
Down the road, who knows how long the City is going to stall
the EPA here. They’re going to make them build a filtration
plant eventually. As for ten years, the New York City record
shows that if they get ten, they won’t talk to us for
seven. Then they’ll talk to us for two and there’ll
be a year where they DO something. At least with 5 years,
they don’t talk to you for 3, talk to you for one and
do something for one." With these comments, Leifeld echoes
the views of Republican Senators John Bonacic and James Seward
who have posted a "FADISBAD" website with State
Assembley members Peter Lopez and Clifford Crouch to oppose
the extension.
"There needs to be some reasonable ‘plaintalk’
when you’re dealing with the City" Leifeld contends.
"When I’m talking about what some people call a
‘global agreement’ here on taxes, I mean getting
away from middle level and most upper level cogs and talking
in the mayor’s office with the Commissioner of DEP and
saying ‘Hey, you know, this ain’t right."
There are other reasons Leifeld speaks of that urge to make
an extension of his own stay in office for another two years.
He mentions the pressing need for new town offices, another
project he’d like to see started before he leaves office.
"I’m not looking for a big office building but
we have to do something," Leifeld gestures. "It’s
cramped, old, inefficient. We’ve got leaky roofs and
we fix them so they’re good for a while and then where
do you go? You can’t break down a wall and make an office
bigger anymore unless you spend big bucks and why spend it
on that building? We should be looking at how to come up with
an economical building to give us more, affordable space.
Five years from now, maybe less, we’re going to be forced
to do something. If we start now, we might be able to do it
a little more leisurely, without breaking the horse."
Leifeld says he would like to keep town offices in West Shokan
but "we haven’t really sat down and talked about
this as a board other than saying we’ve got to do something."
Moving to the area where the trucks are now housed would not
be a long term solution, he suggests, and then where would
you put the trucks? You’d have to build a garage.
"Remodeling this old shack we’re in is just not
feasible," he observes. "In the end, you’re
going to spend a lot of money and still have nothing. This
is something else that needs attention and I’d like
to at least get started."
Then there’s the creek bed across the road from the
town offices that threatens to flood when rains are heavy
and needs clearing out. Another immediate concern: "We’ve
got till the middle of August or the grant money is gone.
I’ve gotten an extension until September 20-something
but I still don’t have permits from DEC or DEP. They’re
telling me ‘Don’t worry’ "
In reflection, Leifeld is surprised that he’s held office
as long as he has: "Mainly because I didn’t start
out thinking that I would be as effective as I think I’ve
been. I DO like what I do, I’ve got to admit that much.
There are times when it’s frustrating but, mostly, I
do enjoy it. You get a chance to help people in a way that
only they know. There are many things people don’t know
about- personal problems that families have, kids getting
into trouble, that sort of thing. That’s the part I
get the most satisfaction from, I guess. When somebody comes
up to you a year later and says ‘You know, if it wasn’t
for you, I’d have been in jail.’ It means a lot
to me, when somebody stops in, now and then, and says ‘I
had time to step back and look at things differently.’
That’s the real thing."
Born in Paterson, New Jersey, Leifeld spent most of his life
in the Olive area after a hitch in military service. His parents
had bought Silver Creek Lodge in Chichester in the 1940s and
Brendt attended the two-room grade school house there before
returning to Patterson for high school. Reading the writing
on the wall, he left his post-service job with a cigarette
company after 23 years and spent 2 years with Ulster County
Corrections before finishing up another 20 years with a state
corrections facility. Prior to his 20 years as Olive Supervisor,
Leifeld served on the town board for 11 years. At 72, he says,
it’ll be time to find out if the motor home outside
his house starts up..."before it doesn’t,"
he adds.
Private
Vs Public
The clinic will take place at the office of co-organizer and
acupuncturist Julia Rose, at the Phoenicia Healing Arts Center
on Main Street. Appointments must be made in advance for sessions
in massage therapy, reflexology, acupuncture, homeopathy,
flower essence treatment, or craniosacral therapy, by calling
(845) 688-2323. Those who can’t afford to pay will receive
free treatment, and donations are requested from all other
clients.
Weeks is the founder of Health Care is a Human Right, an umbrella
organization that operates the “suitcase clinics”,
in which practitioners arrive at a site, set up their equipment,
treat clients, and then pack up and leave. “It’s
guerilla medicine,” she said. “We’re part
of a grass-roots effort to change the health care system.
Many working people don’t have health insurance, and
we want to give them access to care. But we also want to change
people’s perceptions of what wellness is and how to
stay healthy.”
A large part of alternative medicine is preventive treatment,
which ends up saving money, said Rose, but many people cannot
afford alternative modalities because they are not covered
by health insurance. “Alternative medicine is actually
cheaper than conventional medicine,” she added. “You
can’t expect to go to a regular doctor and be seen for
an hour for $60.”
Practitioners will donate their time to the clinic and arrange
for follow-up treatments on a sliding scale. The tentative
list of practitioners includes Susan Brown (craniosacral therapy,
which balances body functioning through light touch at selected
points), Vickie O’Dougherty (homeopathy, which treats
the whole system with energetic substances derived from plant,
animal, and mineral sources), Julie Evans (massage), Maha
Golden (flower essences for healing emotional imbalances),
Thurman Greco (reflexology, stimulation of points on the feet
to affect specific parts of the body), Julia Rose (acupuncture,
balancing of energy through the body with the use of fine
sterile needles), and Susan Weeks (homeopathy).
Weeks trained as a physician’s assistant and paramedic
in New York City, She worked in Harlem Hospital and later
in the emergency room at Kingston Hospital, until she felt
that “my very strong ethic to ‘do no harm’
became impossible to reconcile with Western medicine, which
is all about drugs. The health care system is run by the drug
companies. When I was training as a physician’s assistant,
the only education we received about menopause was a film
on hormone replacement therapy [HRT], make by the manufacturers
of HRT drugs! I raised my hand and said, ‘I’m
going through menopause myself, and I’m taking herbs.’
And everyone groaned, ‘Oh, there goes Susan again.’”
In a course on anatomy at New York University, she was among
the students dissecting cadavers, a distancing word she prefers
not to use, substituting the term “donor”. “These
were people who donated their bodies and gave us an incredible
gift. A student from Ghana was out in the hall, crying. He
said he couldn’t be a doctor because he couldn’t
cut into the genitals. A lot of people can’t cut into
hands, faces. I said to him, ‘You will be a great doctor
because you really care about people. You and I will organize
a memorial service for the bodies. We’ll thank them.’
It was an amazing, magical experience for everyone. Someone
wrote a song, students brought flowers, thank-you notes, poems,
which were all cremated with the bodies. These were students
of all different religions and races.”
Weeks and anthropology professor Eugene Harris wrote an article
about the ceremony for the journal Clinical Anatomy (“Human
Gross Anatomy: A Crucial Time to Encourage Respect and Compassion
in Students” by Susan E. Weeks, Eugene E. Harris, and
Warren G. Kinsey, 8:69-79 1995). Today such ceremonies are
held in a number of medical schools around the country, and
the article is required reading in anatomy classes.
She went on to study with master homeopath Joel Kreisberg.
Along with other graduates of the training, she came to realize
that only the wealthy could support a homeopathic practice.
As a group, they considered how to bring their services to
a wider range of clients. One woman wanted to organize a health
fair, but Weeks felt that a single event would not be effective.
“I wanted an ongoing clinic. I think that’s the
only way to help people.”
They created Health Care is a Human Right and approached Family
of Woodstock, where they began to run free clinics, which
are available to all staff and clients of the social service
organization. “We’ve seen a huge difference in
some people’s health,” she reported. “People
come back. We do clinics every three months, and we’d
do them more often if we had more practitioners.”
The expansion to Phoenicia is an effort to reach people living
in the mountains who may not have access to health care. Rose,
who lives in Woodland Valley, is a graduate of the Pacific
College of Oriental Medicine and has practiced acupuncture
in New York City as well as in Phoenicia.
“My original vision is to have a community wellness
center,” she said. “A place where people would
come to hang out, get preventive treatment in both Western
and alternative medicine, have movement and meditation classes,
cook and garden. Payment for treatments would be on a sliding
scale, supplemented by grants and barter—working in
the garden, washing dishes in the café. Because of
the sheer magnitude and cost, I realized we have to start
with a short-term goal, which is to build demand. First we
have to go to communities and treat people, educate people,
introduce them to the different modalities, and build a community
of practitioners.”
Weeks and Rose hope to make the Phoenicia clinic a regular
event. “It all depends on the demand and on funding,”
said Weeks. They are in the process of writing grants for
future support.
Phoenicia’s first alternative medicine clinic will be
held at the Phoenicia Healing Arts Center on Main Street,
Wednesday, June 20, from 4:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Call (845)
688-2323 to make an appointment for a session in massage therapy,
acupuncture, reflexology, flower essence treatment, homeopathy,
or craniosacral therapy. Those who can’t afford to pay
will receive free treatment. Donations are requested from
all other clients.
Life
After High School
My generation, the generation of graduating high school seniors,
has been tagged with the immense task of correcting societies
ills. It seems like one moment we are enjoying a day of skiing
at Belleayre Mountain with friends, and the next we are handed
global warming, the war in Iraq, and social security and asked
to fix them.
Ultimately, it is the work that we put forth to correct these
problems that will determine the immediate course of our nation
and essentially, the entire world.
So how do we do it? How can we accomplish our personal goals
while making a concerted effort to correct societies ills?
The answer that I have come to is rather simple, it is “our
belief in our limitless capacity to achieve anything.”
Call me an outrageous optimist, but I truly believe that we
all have the capability to accomplish anything and everything
after the end of our High School years. Whether we are headed
to college, abroad, the armed forces, or straight into the
workforce, we have been given the tools from our friends,
family, and teachers to achieve virtually anything we wish.
In truth, no matter what capacity we choose to live our lives,
we have the ability to learn and accomplish virtually anything
we set our minds to.
During my address to Onteora’s graduating class I spoke
about, “living without limits” because I have
found that the greatest limitations that we run into are those
that we impose upon ourselves. By
narrowing our thinking, we set ourselves up for failure and
do not allow the potential of personal growth and learning
to take place. In short, we can only realize potential if
we allow ourselves to seize it.
No one knows exactly what challenges the future holds; but
with the personal liberty of a free mind without and limitations,
there is no challenge that cannot be conquered.
Once again, good luck to the class of 2007. Live your lives
without limits.
Martin, who moved to Shandaken when he was 2 and attended
Onteora schools from kindergarten on, was Senior Class President
at Onteora HS, Class of 2007.
At present, he is working as a camp counselor at the YMCA
Day Camp, Seewackamano and is planning on entering Hobart
& William Smith Colleges as a freshman in August, 2007.
Martin’s Major will be Political Science, with intentions
of going on to Law School.
Martin participated in Student Council in his earlier education,
was a Cubscout and Webelo Scout. He began playing the saxophone
while a student at Phoenicia, and progressed with the instrument
right through Middle School and High School. He was elected
to the Honor Society at Onteora several years ago.
The above piece was written based on the student’s speech
given at the recent Onteora 2007 graduation ceremony on June
22.
A Jar Of Olives
Thinking
Of Assorted Stuff
One contains about three-dozen framed pictures of family
members. I have not the walls nor mantle space for them.
The dilemma is this: What do I do with all the portraits
I chose to display? The solution is simple. I could un-frame
them and put them into photo albums. However, box number
two that hasn’t been unpacked is filled with such
treasured, yet unpacked, albums. Box number three contains
a wedding gift, from “I-don’t remember-whom”,
of Bavarian cut crystal stemware that was originally twelve
of everything so fragile that only odd numbers of each
size remain. I am sure that I have washed those glasses
and packed them more often than I ever used them.
Madonna became famous with a song called “Material
Girl.” In a way, “stuff” is that stuff
beyond what we need. Perhaps we need less material stuff
than we accumulate. Every time a 15% coupon shows up in
the paper, I feel the need to buy more “stuff.”
I know I should get rid of an item if I get a new item.
However, my closet is “stuffed.” Seriously,
I have clothing I wore to Freeport High School in single
digit sizes just in case I get asked out to a pep-rally
bonfire!
Henry David Thoreau admonished us in On Walden Pond that
we should “keep our accounts on a thumbnail.”
Just the pile of unattended mail, junk and urgent, covers
my desk, let alone a thumbnail. Is all that paper important
“stuff” to catalogue or process?
Kermit the Frog tells us that it is not easy being GREEN.
Well, “green” is very much in vogue as we
reuse, recycle and reclaim resources. The underlying concept
is that we humans, as all good Muppet frogs know, have
and consume too much “stuff.”
The media, now jumping on the Green Bandwagon, tells us
that we all can do one thing to preserve the environment.
I believe that many people doing little bits can make
a big impact on the world. There is an urban legend about
a bank teller who came up with a scheme to get rich. Every
time there was a third place to a decimal, remembering
that our monetary system only deals with tens and hundreds
places, he would transfer that meager amount to his own
account. With thousands of customers over many years with
compounding interest, the teller became rich. And arrested,
I might add, according to legend. So if we each did a
little, like using the washer, dishwasher and dryer at
night instead of peak hours, we might save a fraction
of a kilowatt times millions of people.
Besides, there are others who might need our “stuff.”
A small group of teenagers, with Carol Merante’s
guidance, sold “stuff” at a yard sale and
raised $460.00 for a project called “Nothing But
Nets.” With ten-dollar donations they supplied sleeping
netting that will protect families in third-world countries
from disease. They, and groups like them, gave a little
amount that was matched and doubled to an amount of $64,000.00.
If you do the math, that’s 6, 400 people saved by
a few people from our community.
Right now I am in the process of selling my mom’s
house on the lake in New Paltz. It is filled with “stuff.”
As I begin the task of sorting out. I am trying to keep
“stuff” in its “thumbnail.” I
am realizing that my mom’s “stuff” did
not define her. She was the complete package. Her “stuff”
was excess to her wholeness of being. What we miss is
the person, not her things.
In Middle School we studied Anne Frank and the Holocaust.
In one exercise, I had students pack a bag, as Anne did,
leaving every thing else behind for the Nazis. At first,
students wanted to pack pets, toys, clothes into their
bags. When they really thought about the “stuff”
that was important, they pared down to necessities, heirlooms
and those items that let them go on to live and create
like pencils, paper, books, etc.
So, to the Material Girl and Boy in each of us, heed some
advice from Kermit and Thoreau. Surround yourself only
with “stuff” you can use. That which is superfluous
might better be recycled. A little can do a lot when we
decide what is important to keep or give away.
|
|